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Join us here in The Bistro for a discussion on the entire Gamache series. Feel free to ask or answer any questions about any of the books or the series as a whole.

Discussion on “The Bistro”

Terrific article, Anna. Thanks for sharing. I had no idea that Carl Jung was extolling the benefits of coloring as creative relaxation. Isn’t it interesting how several generations can so easily dismiss something as too insignificant to even mention, then like magic, it appears as truly noteworthy?

Anna, I have a lot of family scattered all over CA. None have even mentioned the fires. So I’m hoping that means it’s a normal-for-CA fire…

Julie, I just scrolled up to the previous two pages. I completely missed your question of did anyone know where M. Beliveau lived. I believe it was mentioned in The Cruelest Month that he had a tree dying at his ‘home’ but he wouldn’t let Gilles try to save it… And didn’t Gamache go to his ‘home’ when his fingerprints were discovered on the police tape? Let’s revisit the entire question of where homes and shops are after TNOTB.

What I discovered with certainty today is that my copy of ‘A Rule Against Murder’ is not with its companion volumes. I remember referencing it during last year’s book discussion so it was ‘shelved’. Once… Nor is it in any of my ‘usual suspect’ places we hide things that are on my desk when our toddler granddaughters are coming. I did find my colored pencils and crayons. I chose to laugh at the synchronicity of it. Seems a lot of that is happening lately. Just not spending as much time at the computer as I used to when I couldn’t do much more. I’ll give ‘Ruth Filter 1’ a go tomorrow because I really want to do it.

Oh, I’m reading The Cruelest Month now – and have found lots of references as to where people’s homes are in relation to others, but I’ve not seen anything yet about M. Beliveau – I’m about halfway through, so I expect I’ll come to it. Thanks. I’m a little confused, as the Bella Bella runs behind both the Bistro (or was it the B & B – I’ve marked them all, so I can fairly quickly go through and find all the references to be sure) and Clara’s homes, as well as the Hadley Mansion… but I’m sure it’s a very curvy river, as Clara’s house is below the Hadley Mansion, which looks directly into the Bistro, as we learned from The Brutal Telling!

Maybe you decided to hide A Rule Against Murder so as not to have to see Peter’s family anymore! 😀

Thanks for the warning Barbara. In the old days at least the criminals had to pay postage when they scammed us by mail! Guess that is why it wasn’t as common. Good on you for letting everyone know.

Thought you might be interested in this article on adult colouring books. You can’t be alone if the books are in the best seller lists.


I hope anyone in California is safe. The ongoing coverage of the bushfires is scary.

Thanks for the link. I didn’t know the books were so popular in other countries. To think, an activity that had been thought of as only for children, is now seen as good for adults and relaxes them. Interesting.
The California wild fires are terrifying. I wonder how any forested areas remain when the fires occur every year.

SCAM ALERT. I received an email this AM supposedly from Amazon for an auto confirm of a kindle book I had ordered it said. When I clicked on the cancel prompt, a form requesting credit card and other info appeared. I called Amazon customer service at once. They had not sent it and I was told other calls had already been received about the same problem. I also left a message with AARP Fraud Network.
Since we are all readers, I wanted everyone to be aware. Tell your friends about this. I’ve made some calls to friends but must wait till later to call others.

Thank you, Barbara. I am amazed at the constantly inventive ways that people are working to cheat others. If that energy and ingenuity had been applied to a useful endeavor, I can’t help but wonder what they might achieve.

P.S. The link didn’t work from my own Facebook page on my device. It worked just fine from Louise’s.

Millie, I connected from Louise’s page too. Yes, the narration is as well done as I hoped it would be.
The word “global” was used in one review (don’t remember site). I wonder if we are going back to the garden from TLWH.

Barbara, that’s an interesting ‘speculation’. 😉 I hadn’t thought of that. I saw that review also and just took global to indicate universal theme. Something which could happen anywhere to anyone. But wouldn’t it be fun to hear from the Constable again. Such great humor.
This week I read an article posted by the NY Times and to my joy say an ‘ad’ for TNOTB at the bottom. The cover on the left and snippets of what I’m assuming were pre-reviews. One said something like, Where else would the devil go but to paradise? I wasn’t expecting that, to be sure. It keeps getting more interesting, doesn’t it?
Take care, Barbara. I’ll try to write more this week.

Oh, wouldn’t I love to go back to that garden… Louise has always said that there are little bits of info about upcoming books in the current ones, so she might very well have meant to come back to this special place… it’s so fun to speculate!

Hello all, I saw on Louise’s Facebook page an announcement that an audio preview of TNOTB was finally available. The link provided just kept popping up a message that I needed to download something called soundcloud. I searched around till I found a way to listen without another app… I hope this link works for those who haven’t heard it yet…
It’s the preview we were able to read, but Bathurst does a terrific narration! Enjoy.

Julie, your mentioning Paint by Numbers brought up a memory from long ago. In the first six years of our marriage, my husband was an Army Reservist, fulfilling his military obligation of that time. He had monthly weekend meetings and two weeks duty in the Summer. I would work on my Paint by Numbers sets when he was gone. I had forgotten about them. I framed them and give them to a local charity shop. They actually sold, although it may have been for the frame. LOL. A few dollars for the shop anyway.

I think some of the paint by numbers sets that I’ve seen (it’s been many years now), were really very good. They did actually manage to break images down to something that could be done that way and look great. The most successful, as I recall, were those with hard edges to everything – such as the Group of Seven paintings…

Paint by numbers: http://tinyurl.com/nexhnmu

Group of Seven: http://tinyurl.com/odqzgo8

To give credit to the engineers, though, I will say that one of the things that impressed me about my husband when we first met and still does is his awareness of things around us that I had no habit of noticing. Telephone wires, telephone poles, public utility boxes, shapes and sizes and patterns of bridges and freeways-details details details of the man made environment. I see the flora and clouds, he sees the beauty of metal, stone, and cement and whatever else it is that engineers make and use!

Cathryne, I’d have thought that an engineer would enjoy coloring the complex things in the adult books… I know there are an inordinate number of engineers and scientists who love to cross stitch, and that’s kind of “Paint by numbers” for thread… I’d think filling in the designs neatly would be fun for an engineer, as well as a bit creative and freeing, because you get to choose the colors….

You and your husband sound like a perfect pair with the two of you looking from different perspectives. Like you I tend to see nature and not man made environment so much. Architecture of older houses and buildings is the exception.
Next month the Main Library here will feature an exhibit on the incorporation of Adinkra symbols of West Africa in regional architecture. I’m completely unaware of them so I am looking forward with great anticipation.

Barbara, I think the fairies coloring book is a wonderful idea. I heard a reference to the growing popularity of adult/artistic coloring books from a suitably grownup source recently, as you and others mentioned. The beauty of the shapes, choice of colors, and appreciation of the artist’s talent, as well as the pleasure and soothing feeling of repetitive motion make it a wonderful activity.
When we heard the reference to this on tv, though, I remember my husband making a hhmmff sound, which I just let go. He is an engineer so there you are. Each brain has its own pluses and minuses, understandings and not. Coloring doesn’t seem any different from jigsaw puzzles and many other things people enjoy, even computer solitaire. I think the more we learn about our brains, the more we will appreciate the importance and place of activities like this in our lives.

Last year I bought a coloring book (Flower Fairies Alphabet Coloring Book) based on the original Flower Fairies Books by Cicely Mary Barker. The beautiful cover caught my eye. I had never heard of her or the book. Imagine when I did a google search and found lovely pictures of each flower and fairy for every letter. I put the book and pencils away as my husband was less than pleased. Following my big meltdown, when I was trying to think of actions I could take to help me, I thought of the coloring book. I told my husband I was going to color it as an effort to relax regardless of what he thought. Then a catalogue came and coloring books for adults were featured on the cover. The news paper supplement, Parade, called adult coloring a new, fun, popular activity. The are internet sites offering books. Newsletters from several organizations are touting it too.
I was only a little ahead of the times and not silly. It is fun !

I hve seen the revolution of adult colouring books Barbara and not silly at all. When I was in my late teens, early twenties, my cousin introduced me to DoodleArt which were big colouring posters for adults. So intricate. I actually found some for my daughter. They are not easy to manage though as they are poster size so she squats on the floor doing them which I also used to do. A book is better. I have seen colouring books for adults at our local bookstore and likewise in catalogues. You were very ahead of the times! By the way, I had an original Flower Fairies book. I used to use the pictures as inspiration to draw on Birthday card I made.

Barbara, that sounds wonderful! I find faries enchanting. See, you were avant-garde, like Clara. Color away and enjoy.

I have lots of friends who are coloring and find it so relaxing and still creative… I think it makes a lot of sense. When I was young, you could buy poster-sized prints of very intricate designs that you colored in with felt-tipped pens, and I got one and found it endlessly fascinating. It took me about a month, and I displayed it for a long time – it was gorgeous! Finally my (then) husband likened it to putting up a kid’s drawing on the refrigerator and since we didn’t have a kid, it seemed weird, so I threw it away. But I remember how addicting coloring on it became, and have watched the new books coming out for adults with fascination. I am just about ready to get one myself, but I think I would prefer to color with the felt pens than crayons, or maybe colored pencils…

I have a lovely, complete set of crayons, all still pristine, and though I smell that box from time to time, I don’t want to use them and make them “used”, hahaha. But pencils or pens I’d have no problems with… I think it’s simply that I never had the “big” box when I was a kid, and wanted to “have” it, not use it…

Julie, Get a book and a box of pencils and join in. I’m going out today to look for a larger box of pencils as I only have the 16 pencil box.
My friends don’t know about my coloring but I’m thinking of telling them. Also I just thought of getting a book and pencils for my sister. She thought it was a good idea for me so maybe she will give it a try.

Just saying hi. Been a bit busy and husband home for first time in a month so not as much time as usual.

I hope everyone is ok? Barbara, have you seen the doctor, I think you were going for a review? Fingers crossed you are feeling better.

Julie, are you feeling calmer and is everything working out with the car?

Less than a month to go people. I am sure we are all getting excited.

Anna – can’t believe you took time away from your husband, if he’s not been home in a month! Of course, the Bistro DOES have it’s draw…. I’m doing very well – have “gotten back on the horse” and am now happily driving hubby’s car while mine is in the shop. Insurance is covering most of it -thank heavens – it’s thousands of dollars’ damage to my car, and I’m sure only hundreds to the other car, so, thank goodness, that nice young woman won’t be without her car quite so long. Mine will take about 2 weeks to fix, apparently. Yikes. I don’t like driving my husband’s car, as his is just not as nice as mine, hahaha. Ah well – this is my comeuppance!

I am so excited to get to TNOTB – though I will be in Utah when Louise is speaking here in Seattle, so sorry I can’t get to do everything! But I will be having fun with friends in Utah, so shouldn’t begrudge… Maybe next year, though I wonder how much traveling Louise will want to continue to do in the next few years, so I might just have to go on a pilgrimage to Quebec City and do the Bury Your Dead tour sometime, to get my “Louise fix”. Meanwhile, I’m sure she’ll continue to do radio and television interviews that can be on Youtube, etc.

The Bury your Dead tour is on my wish list for sure! Pity you will miss Louise, I thought of you when I read that. So glad the car situation is being dealt with….well done.

Hi Anna. I’m doing much better. Two big stressors over with excellent resolutions. Two others remain. Wow, half-way through. Dr. changed appointment to mid August, but I’m OK. Thanks.
I can’t believe there is only a few weeks left. Trying to finish an excellent study on Henry VIII. Very informative but s-l-o-w reading. Many sources are citied. I want to have nothing “waiting” when TNOTB is released.

Julie, couldn’t find a ‘reply’ button for your comment about needlework. I love your reply to people: ‘it doesn’t “take” patience, it gives it’.

I’m right there with you regarding anything to do with numbers. I think you might like what I found in an article I read last year. “…dyscalculia, the counterpart to dyslexia that makes learning math difficult.” I felt less ‘dumb’ when I read that. My brain is just not ‘wired’ for numbers and that’s OK with me. I’ll take words any day. 🙂

It might have been mentioned during the re-read, but I had no idea the bridge was in need of repairs to the point another is being built. Love the suggestions proposed for the the new bridge.

I didn’t realize that, either, Louise. I think we talked in general terms about how old the infrastructure is all around North America, and how little money had been put aside for upkeep, but not that bridge in particular. It’s scary how Louise has her finger right on the pulse of what’s new and relevant! That, in itself, is brilliant. Very much like the treatment of the Cree, both in her “Arnot case” storyline, and, unfortunately, in real life in Canada.

Millie – I just called you “Louise”! Now, you are to take that as the highest of compliments, and not as a sign of my dotage, hahaha.

Too funny, Julie. Please feel free to call me Louise any time! I take that as the highest honor. And who knows, maybe a little of her indefatigable positive attitude and dedication will rub off on me. 🙂

Millie, I did a little cross stitch many years ago. I didn’t find it relaxing at all. I don’t knit or crochet because I pull the thread too tight. Friends and family have told me that they find cross stitching, knitting and crocheting relaxing and that they feel creative too.tis
I also have arthritis in my hands.
Crossword puzzles, Sudoku, logic puzzles and cryptograms relax me and clear my mind of worries.
It is unfortunate that some women, trying to declare their worth, independence and equality chose to do so by belittling what they felt were stereotypical of “female pursuits”.
Thanks for caring and mentioning something that might relieve stress. Support always helps.

You’re welcome, Barbara. I’m glad you found things that work for you. I’m sure everyone cares. Just some are more vocal about it. Lol

I just realized, None of us posted about the balcony collapse at LP’s condo. If you haven’t read about it on her Facebook Page, you might want too. On the left of the page is a negative response about it. Interesting. I hope no ill will develops toward them. Everything seemed to be going so well. I read the Facebook page daily along with playing all my games.

Oh, that’s terrible that there was a negative comment regarding them – I didn’t see it, though I did, of course, see the original posting. How awful – I should think that everyone would be glad that it happened in a way that nobody was hurt – it’s amazing it hadn’t happened earlier when there was a party there – it could have come down at any time, as the wood was rotten – that can’t be Louise and Michael’s fault – it’s because of them, it was found and is being fixed!

Hi Barbara! I follow Louise’s FB daily page as well, and did notice that very negative comment (at least it did seem even rather ominous to me) on the left side of the page where usually only three comments “stand alone”. I think this was about two days ago, soon after the alarming photo of fallen deck mishap. I immediately thought UH-OH! Now it appears that public comment has been pulled as well as Louise’s seemingly unrelated musing for the same day. Sort mysterious coincidence (or else my computer is acting up once again?) Hmmmmm. Praying that issues have been resolved by now….

Anna – that is lovely! What a clever girl. I’m sure it must be difficult to hold two opposing viewpoints in your head at the same time, yet, she’d have had to, to get that outcome – brilliant, and really very uplifting!

If ever I get discouraged about anything, I will read this. Thank you so much for sharing. It is a brilliant example of the mind is its own place, it can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven.

Thank you all for your thoughts on Go Set a Watchman. Work has been too busy for too long and there has been no time to read anything (other than less than riveting property tax assessment files and drafts of arguments which I won’t describe for fear of putting you all to sleep or causing you permanent eye damage from involuntary glazing over during the ever so exciting run down on statistical testing). I had to take vacation time coinciding with release of TNOTB to make sure that I would have time to read it. Just a month left – so exciting. I enjoyed popping back in to catch up. I wish I’d had the idea to re-read through a Ruth filter. And the time to do it. Now, back to work. Take care Bistro People.

Hi Kim, great to hear from you. Love your sense of humor towards work overload.
I had given thought of sharing some of my ‘Ruth filter’ observations and questions while re-listening, but thought it might be redundant for all those who participated in the discussions from the beginning.
If you, or anyone else, think you’d have the time or interest, I could still give it a go as time permits…
I’m glad you’re taking time off during book release. I really enjoyed your contributions. Chat again then, if not sooner.

Millie – I would love to hear your thoughts as you read with a Ruth filter… I have been doing the most haphazard of re-reading. First I had re-read the first two books, then I got antsy that I wouldn’t be able to finish before the release of TNOTB, so jumped ahead to The Brutal Telling, Bury Y our Dead and then How the Light Gets In – now, I’m back reading The Cruelest Month… but my filter got lost somewhere – and I’ve been filtering now for exactly how the village is set up. I have been fascinated since hearing about the map of Three Pines, and have thought that, if I don’t win one, then I’ll have to make my own. I want to do it as a kind of cross-stitch – but need to know just where things are in relation to each other. The Cruelest Month has proved gold, as it tells the order shops are lined up in, and that they are all connected to one another – not just the Bistro and the bookstore, as I had thought. It also tells that Clara’s house is clapboard, some are stone, some are brick (but haven’t figured out which, yet.) So, of course, while I kind of notice Ruth, I’m not as focused as I had thought I’d be, hahaha. Story of my life. I’m so easily distracted.

Julie, be grateful you get distracted. It’s one of the hallmarks of a creative person. Which is one reason I’m putting things away where I sort of know at least what room it’s in… I swear I need side blinders on if I want to finish something. lol…

Love the idea of a cross stitch map of Three Pines. Sometimes I get so confused. Like what compass point is Stage Coach Road? But here are a few things I recall about the layout. Clara’s house is next to the bridge that takes one to the firehouse and Emily’s house, now Armand’s, is right next door to Ruth’s.
I’d be willing to buy a cross stitch of the map! Maybe you could work out a deal? Why not? There are Three Pines mugs and totes… How exciting would that be??? Something the the needle artists. Three cheers.

IF I get it done, of course, you may have a copy – I’d never sell it, because it won’t be polished enough, and I think that if you buy something, you should get a really polished and professional result, but it will be easy to read and follow, and will be accompanied by a colored rendition of how it “should” look, so hopefully, would be something you’d want. Naturally, this is going to be pretty far in the future, as I’m also working on another large, original piece based on Pride and Prejudice and since a friend and I are working on these together and will exchange them at some point to stitch something on each other’s, like a mini friendship sampler, I have to commit to that this year. But maybe by this time next year, I’ll be ready to start.

So – does anyone know where M. Beliveau lives? Is it above his store? Is it the same with Sarah, from the Boulangerie? Do all the storekeepers live above their stores like Myrna? I had thought not, but now that I know that they are all adjoining, I feel like they must also be alike. Of course, some may use the loft upstairs for storage, and live elsewhere… but if I had that space available to me, I’d probably live in the store.

I hadn’t realized that Gamache was right beside Ruth – that would be interesting… I know they’re both on the Village Green – do you happen to know if they’re directly across from Clara? People always seem to have to cross the green to get to Clara’s house when she has everyone for dinner. I think, in a Trick of the Light, I might get a better handle on exactly where Clara’s house is, as I think people were able to park adjacent to her house as soon as they got into the village.

What a great idea! I can’t do needlework but would love the pattern of Three Pines. Surely, I could hire someone to stitch it for me. The Three Pines world grows.

Barbara – I’ll put your name on a copy! 😀 All the caveats already given to Millie apply, of course, hahaha.

Barbara, I’m curious. When you say you can’t do needlework, what do you mean, exactly? Do your hands have arthritis? Or better put, is there a physical reason you can’t? Or did you try once without the result you expected?

The reason I ask is because recent studies have shown any form of needlework lowers blood pressure, soothes feelings of anxiety and nerves and has other beneficial properties. True, it may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but personally, any form sure takes my mind off of the ‘worry’ I can do so well. Plus, the soothing, repetitive motion engrosses my mind to the point I don’t feel the physical pain of my hips not quite staying balanced on their own just yet.

Yesterday I spent some time on the computer searching through information on Margaret Atwood, the poet Louise Penny attributes as the author of many of Ruth’s poems. I was searching for the complete poem so often quoted in bits (Who hurt you once…), or at least which of Ms Atwood’s books it might be in. To my dismay, I found a ‘famous quote’ where Ms Atwood dismissed the pursuit of ‘needlework and gardening’ as beneath even consideration of a modern woman who should be free to pursue issues or topics that are usually the domain of men. And of course, I can’t find it now… It was during an interview, I didn’t notice the year, and I’m paraphrasing badly, but that was the gist of it. I agree that women have every right to persue whatever ignites their passion. And this may have been Ms Atwood’s own defensive posture before the feminist movement when being ‘lady-like’ had strict rules. It was a quote completely out of context so frankly, I don’t know…

My dismay was due to a feeling of defensiveness. (I do that really well also, much to my chagrin.) Needlework is no longer something women of means in days of old ‘used to do’ to fill their days. It’s an art form. It engages the mind, heart and spirit. Spirit? Yes, it gives many the child-like joy of ‘I did that!’ I created something. Personally, I need that in my life once in a while.

Anyway, cross stitch is one of the easiest forms of needlework as far as the stitch itself. The color changes can make incredibly ‘complex’ pieces, but the stitch itself is not beyond anyone. I think, and hope, Julie would agree.

My intent is not one to push anyone to try it or create a sense that one must justify why it’s not for them, just to share that it isn’t impossibly hard and has many ‘health’ benefits too. Hugs, Barbara.

Millie – the Margaret Atwood quote is distressing, but sounds so much like it came out of the maelstrom of the women’s movement, when I feel that all efforts to bring a woman’s right to do whatever she wanted (even if it was a traditionally male pursuit) had to be magnified and shouted from the rooftops in a very strident voice. I bet you’d find a different attitude today, as we now think what was lost by always having to be “on the defensive”. At any rate – there are so many excellent reasons for anyone (male or female) to do needlework, that I don’t worry at all if someone doesn’t see its worth. Not least of that is the relaxation. I, too, find it very relaxing. So often, people have commented to me that “they wouldn’t have the patience”, and my answer is always that it doesn’t “take” patience, it gives it. But it’s not for everyone.

Barbara – I’ve known plenty of other people who tried cross stitch and found it actually stressful – unlike so many other pursuits, there IS a right and wrong way to do it, and sometimes the thread gets all knotted up, and sometimes, you just can’t see that tiny little hole your needle is supposed to go through, and sometimes, it just doesn’t seem appealing. No worries – you have the mind-teasers to help with stress reduction – I also find crosswords, especially, to be relaxing. If I can’t sleep, sometimes I pull out a crossword and start on it, and I’m sleepy in no time. I find that fascinating, because you’d think it would make you more alert. Sudoku, on the other hand, is completely beyond my ken – Can’t imagine the mind-power it takes to be able to figure that stuff out…

I have not read any articles that address the attitude of the Finches toward Henry. They cared for him and Atticus must have loved him. However, he was not seen as a possible husband for Scout. Were they wrong to feel that his family background must be considered when the question of Scout marrying him was raised. He explained that she and he could behave in the same way but people would judge them differently. Should family background be considered when marrying ? Is it true that you marry the individual and not the family ? What if everyone will live close to each other in the town both grew up in or the couple will live far away ? Is that a factor ? Do young adults need to listen to the consul of family in those matters ? Does love truly overcome all obstacles ?

Big questions Barbara but not an uncommon situation. Crossing perceived class boundaries is difficult in many cultures…English even now, Indian with the extensive caste system etc. Perhaps the biggest of your questions…does love conquer all? I don’t know. We don’t usually live in a bubble. If the family remains close by and disapproving that would be very difficult. If the couple moves away then family support, such as it might be is lost and also the chance for reconciliation.

I think that love can conquer all, IF the people are strong and know they are right to love each other. But none of us lives in a vacuum. We do, indeed, marry the whole family (at least, usually. unless a rift occurs because of the marriage that means that that influence is taken away). How strong is love, after years of recriminations and accusations? Can it possibly live through such hardships? I don’t know the answer for sure, but I think that people would have to really KNOW in their heart of hearts that they are right to love this person and to commit to making sure that they keep this uppermost in their minds.

I just lost a post. My battery died. GSAW was excellent. The dialogue between Jean Louise and Atticus, she and Henry and she and Uncle Jack had me holding my breathe, reading as fast as possible and crying. I had to reread each several times after I finished the book. My heart broke when she went to visit Calpurnia.
I can hardly believe GSAW was written before TKAM. It was prophetic. Shivers ran over me as I read some passages. I think it is a book that will be enjoyed by many.

So glad you enjoyed GSAW Barbara. I am interested in what you think about the portrayal of the characters. Did you feel Atticus was still a character of repute? I did. I think we just saw how much harder it was to come to terms with the changes in the world they knew.

I wonder how the morality of 2015 will be judged in the future. As the world changes do we hold history to the same standards as we hold for ourselves? Is it fair to do that?

One of the first articles I read about GSAW was titled “Atticus was a Racist”. That caused me to not want to read the book. I feel that Atticus was a person of repute. He knew the danger that some people would take advantage of the African American population and use them to their own advantage. It wasn’t their fault that they were ill-prepared for full participation in governing. I wish I knew how every person, no matter what race, could be an equal participant in citizenship. The wrongs of the past were so grave they seem insurmountable. But solve them we must.
I am reading more and more about the Confederate Flag issue. Those who support it are very vocal as I knew they would be. Others are demanding all monuments related to the War be destroyed.
I am not offended by the efforts to remove the flag from public places. It should never have been there in the first place. It does no honor to anyone.
I doubt that Atticus, Henry and Uncle Jack would be surprised by the controversy.

Holding history to our standards is a question that has long worried me. Not only the history of the US, but world history. I have been told that while no one should approve of the wrongs done in the past, it is unfair to apply our standards to history. I seem to be unable to not apply our standards. How could people not see the wrong. I think people in the future will judge us very harshly and maybe they should. I hope that they will be advanced enough to realize there were people of goodwill who wanted a fairer and more just world as well as those who did not.

It’s hard isn’t it Barbara. Civilization changes and what was right seems wrong and was wrong seems right through the lens of our time. Maybe the reason people don’t see the wrong in their time is because it isn’t wrong. If you live in a world where purple people are revered and polka dot people are victimized and that is all you have ever known then how do you learn it is wrong? And even if you start to believe that the way the polka dot people are being treated is wrong, what do you do? No one you know believes what you believe. It takes a wave of change,a momentum among many to drive change. Someone has to stand up and risk persecution. Nelson Mandela spent years in jail. Martin Luther King was assassinated.

Thinking for ourselves, making our own minds up in the face of dissent is the difficult thing. Going along with the crowd or what our mentors believe is easier. Because surely smarter people than us they must be. We doubt ourselves, we doubt our beliefs. But even when we do believe something different, it is quite another thing to stand up for that belief. And more often that not the people we have to stand up to are those who taught us, those who love us, those who we love.

The message of GSAW for me, is that we need to go through that process and find our own arguments and strengths. Atticus’s flaws had to be exposed for Scout to become and in her becoming we see Atticus and Jack are proud of who she turns out to be. Atticus’s strength is helping her to “be” even when he cannot.

This is one of those questions that devils me, too, Barbara. When we look back, we wonder how people could have let all the Jewish people in Europe suffer and be murdered? Yet, how is it that we are now witnessing so many black people suffering and being murdered (albeit, one at a time, for the most part) at the hands of our police? Is it so different? All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. Are we doing nothing? I FEEL like people are demanding change, and a few in authority are stepping up, but it sure doesn’t seem to be spreading. I wonder, now, how an officer can continue and do the things that have been “accepted” practice now, when the harsh glare of the cell phone camera is upon them all the time? How is it that a routine traffic stop for not signaling a lane change lands a person in jail, makes her feel so bad about herself that she decided to end it all, and she is left alone to do it? I think we WILL be judged harshly, and rightly so…

Julie, just read about your little accident. So very glad you and all are OK. Your sadness speaks to me of your compassion. I admire your concern and your courage. Me? I do the turtle really well.

I did read the article you linked. Fascinating at first read. But when I thought about it and re-read it several times I began to wonder why the author of the article calls only writers who allow another to ‘edit’ their work a real pro, a real artist. Really? Julie, you love the work of Jane Austin. Do you know, or have you heard rumors of Austin having had an editor? Are there ‘editors’ for other types of artists? Not to my knowledge. They may apprentice with a master or let’s use Clara and Peter as examples of artists who studied their art. Remember how angry Gamache felt when Clara told him of Peter’s derisive comments towards The Three Graces? That Clara needed to work on perspective… Did Gamache, or any of us, think Clara’s ego got in the way of her own creations?

Once on their own, a painter paints, a sculptor chips away. People like their work or not and some are better than others, but there isn’t an entire industry of editors for every art form. Why do only writers need to ‘set aside their ego’? Personally, I think a lot of writers need to set aside their self doubt. What is so honorable in allowing someone else to shape one’s vision, as the author of the article states.

Those were my impressions after reading the article. My feelings on the entire thing mirror yours and Barbara’s. I don’t intend to read Watchman and I hope Ms Lee’s feelings aren’t hurt. Personally, I would feel humiliated if someone got a hold of my rough drafts and published them. To anyone else, they would appear to be chicken scratches of an uneducated person. To me, they are my shorthand to capture the essence of a feeling, a character… Certainly ‘not ready for prime time’.
And, although you graced me the the title of author, I have not earned it.

I’m going to press post comment without going back to ‘edit’ or this may never appear. Yesterday, I tried many times without success…

Millie – that’s a fascinating thing to think of. You are right – Jane Austen never had anyone to “edit” her work until after her death. The last two of her regular books were published after her death (Emma and Persuasion), and she left several unfinished manuscripts, some of which, people have added to and published later. I think her brother edited Persuasion because it wasn’t quite ready – I know he changed the name of the book, and that Jane had written two different endings and he chose which to use. Later editions have included both, so the reader can make up their mind, but I think he chose right. Otherwise, I think the books appeared just as she wrote them – her singular vision.

And yet, I think that working with a thoughtful editor CAN make a book better, and from all accounts, it certainly did in the case of TKAMB. I almost imagine that, if the first version were published as is, it would have been a “good read”, but that the Pulitzer Prize would have gone to someone else… Then again, maybe if Ms Lee had been allowed to get into the water of admiration for her writing a little more gradually, instead of being thrown into the deep end with an immediate Pulitzer and thousands of fans, she’d have continued writing… Who’s to say what the best thing would be.

But I do think that, given what DID happen, like you, I’d be upset to have everyone reading and discussing my early draft of something…

As to whether or not an artist can be a true professional unless they are “guided by an editor”, of course, that’s poppycock – I’m only sorry I didn’t see that in the article myself. If that were true, it would only work if editors didn’t work for the people who stand to make the most money from publication… they’d have to be independent, which they’re not. It’s nice to think that the 50’s were a gentler, kinder time when editors had all the time in the world, and the true calling of helping an author to realize their full potential, but it smacks a little of self-serving rhetoric, doesn’t it?

Good catch – I really hadn’t noticed it at all…

Julie, I’ve been following the rise of an independently published author (Kindle) and how, when his sales were astronomic, he was courted by the big publishing companies. He said no thank you until he struck a deal with one where he kept the digital rights and the publishing company had paper rights. His blog and Facebook posts have been quite educational. Hugh Howey is the author. He writes mostly post-apocalyptic stories, which aren’t my cup of tea, but his writing is wonderful.

Seems the 50’s were a time when publishing houses had editors to really help an emerging author. Those times are rare now. Look at what gets published… big names with a ready audience. There are fewer and fewer ‘debut’ books published. Having that type of in-house editor is no longer cost effective therefore many editors have indeed gone independent.

Really interesting perspective Millie. I had never thought that it is only writers that have editors. Maybe musicians have producers that flavour their work but it is different in that music is often reinterpreted. Wow, lots to think about. I guess most artists self edit other than published authors. Clara is a good example of someone who might have been destroyed by an “editor”. I was thinking about the Salon des Refusés (hope I got that right?!). I am thinking about the good and the harm that can come from critique.

TKAM is a great book. GSAW is also a good book. Maybe not in the same way as TKAM but it isn’t the same book and Harper Lee obviously learned a lot, either on her own or through working with the editor, in between writing the two. But I am glad to read both. I enjoyed both. They both have something to say and the message is actually quite different.

I don’t know exactly how we came to be reading GSAW but I am not entirely sure Harper didn’t want it read. She did send it for publication initially. I think she didn’t want the rest of what publication brought, the publicity,the intrusion etc. Maybe she feels safe and protected enough where she is to let it go. I hope so.

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